John Charmley Wrote:Mind you, if the good doctor Z thinks historians confine themselves to establishing the facts of the past, he hasn't met many of them!
That's good! And, I defer to your more informed point of view.
John Charmley Wrote:I hope that Kirk may join us here in examining your question about theosis as a process as opposed to a once and for all phenomenon; I must say that thus far I have not seen the latter in any of the Fathers I have been reading; that of course may, again, speak more about my own deficiencies than anything else :oops:
That would be good if Kirk could bring his learning to the table. And, although I asked my question very poorly, what I was trying to ask about was not is theosis a process, because I think we should have 100% agreement that it is, but more along the lines of a either a "have" or "have-not" type of experience.
For example, it seems the saints within Orthodoxy are viewed as 'having' IT or experiencing theosis as 'the normal Christian life' (to quote Watchman Nee for any Nee fans). There is not moment-by-moment experience of theosis or what some call the Sprit-filled life, Abiding life, etc., it is an either or thing in one's life that once IT is bestowed it does not come and go--although this is rare in this life. I think this is the majority view in Orthodoxy.
But, I was asking for any writing/quotes from within Orthodoxy that speak to theosis as a gift that does come and go for the lack of a better expression. In this sense, it is the way is still the goal as in the above; however, there are foretastes possibly as opposed to the full-time condition of the saint described above.
As I reread this I see this all sounds clear as mud . . . but, I'll hit the submit button just in case there are any who can read my mind or see what I'm saying here.